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	<title>Comments on: How do young feminists make relationships possible?</title>
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	<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/</link>
	<description>A blog/community created for teenage girls who care about their rights as women and want to be heard.</description>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-2/#comment-2159</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-2159</guid>
		<description>I just want to have an emotional moment and say that this thread was extremely helpful! 
I&#039;ve always found myself steering away from relationships, afraid no man would get it, I finally &quot;gave in&quot; and find myself lashing out feminist opinions at almost everything he says! Now he&#039;s kind of mad and I wonder if I&#039;m too feminist? But really, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s too feminist, just &quot;too closed up to see there&#039;s no</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to have an emotional moment and say that this thread was extremely helpful!<br />
I&#8217;ve always found myself steering away from relationships, afraid no man would get it, I finally &#8220;gave in&#8221; and find myself lashing out feminist opinions at almost everything he says! Now he&#8217;s kind of mad and I wonder if I&#8217;m too feminist? But really, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s too feminist, just &#8220;too closed up to see there&#8217;s no</p>
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		<title>By: i'm sick of words, let's act!</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator>i'm sick of words, let's act!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1770</guid>
		<description>i am really shocked this question is here and more shocked no one else has thought it was absurd. you go on about how you&#039;re this uber-conscious womyn, but you&#039;re stressing out about telling some guy you&#039;re a feminist? that is insane! you seem real proud of your feminism online...are you so weak you can&#039;t channel your pride to where it really matters?(every day life!) if you really care about this person why wouldn&#039;t you just ask them how they feel and tell them what pisses you off? the very notion that you want to sneak around to find weird motives is creepy. no person, regardless of their sex wants to feel like they can&#039;t trust their partner. it really pains me to think that there are womyn here who are in relationships of any kind where you don&#039;t feel comfortable engaging in really good arguments with your partners. that is how you know if people are worth spending time with, you talk to them!
and as a p.s. what is with the gloria steinem obsession? it&#039;s been 40 years and there&#039;s been alot of amazing womyn who have said some pretty rad stuff. oh! and they&#039;re not privileged white womyn either!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am really shocked this question is here and more shocked no one else has thought it was absurd. you go on about how you&#8217;re this uber-conscious womyn, but you&#8217;re stressing out about telling some guy you&#8217;re a feminist? that is insane! you seem real proud of your feminism online&#8230;are you so weak you can&#8217;t channel your pride to where it really matters?(every day life!) if you really care about this person why wouldn&#8217;t you just ask them how they feel and tell them what pisses you off? the very notion that you want to sneak around to find weird motives is creepy. no person, regardless of their sex wants to feel like they can&#8217;t trust their partner. it really pains me to think that there are womyn here who are in relationships of any kind where you don&#8217;t feel comfortable engaging in really good arguments with your partners. that is how you know if people are worth spending time with, you talk to them!<br />
and as a p.s. what is with the gloria steinem obsession? it&#8217;s been 40 years and there&#8217;s been alot of amazing womyn who have said some pretty rad stuff. oh! and they&#8217;re not privileged white womyn either!</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Feminist Quick Clicks, 4 &#171; Cook &#38; Hook</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1707</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Feminist Quick Clicks, 4 &#171; Cook &#38; Hook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1707</guid>
		<description>[...] teen feminist website &#8220;The FBomb&#8221; asks how young feminists can &#8217;screen&#8217; potential dates for misogyny before dating.  Possibly [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] teen feminist website &#8220;The FBomb&#8221; asks how young feminists can &#8217;screen&#8217; potential dates for misogyny before dating.  Possibly [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ella</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator>ella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1701</guid>
		<description>bottom line (and I can&#039;t believe no one has said this): the only *sure fire* way to tell if he is sexist is to NOT SLEEP WITH HIM (surprise).  if he still likes you for you and not just *the goods*, then he cares about you more than just your body.  really girls, its a lot simpler than we&#039;re making it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bottom line (and I can&#8217;t believe no one has said this): the only *sure fire* way to tell if he is sexist is to NOT SLEEP WITH HIM (surprise).  if he still likes you for you and not just *the goods*, then he cares about you more than just your body.  really girls, its a lot simpler than we&#8217;re making it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1689</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1689</guid>
		<description>I find that, like most people, most of the guys I encounter have a skewed view of feminism mandated by what society says a feminist looks like. While one ex got his ass promptly dumped when I explained my feminism and he laughed and said equal rights happenedyears ago, many guys are just surprised to find that you&#039;re not wearing Docs and burning your bra. A lot are even more surprised when they learn that they&#039;re actually feminists too...always a pleasant realization for me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find that, like most people, most of the guys I encounter have a skewed view of feminism mandated by what society says a feminist looks like. While one ex got his ass promptly dumped when I explained my feminism and he laughed and said equal rights happenedyears ago, many guys are just surprised to find that you&#8217;re not wearing Docs and burning your bra. A lot are even more surprised when they learn that they&#8217;re actually feminists too&#8230;always a pleasant realization for me!</p>
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		<title>By: SarahC</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>To start with, I have absolutely zero experience dating men, women, or farm animals.  Why does this matter?  Because the foundation of dating is a relationship.  And the vast majority of my friends are male.  

I&#039;ve known these guys for a long time.  We have similiar intrests, a similiar sense of humor, and the knowledge of when to agree to disagree.  Do I worry about hanging out with them? no.  Crashing on one of their couches when I&#039;m too tired to drive home? no.  

Granted, these guys are pretty remarkable.  They don&#039;t actually call girls sluts, hos, or anything demeaning.  Actually, we mostly call guys whores, when we call people whores.  That&#039;s gay--I won&#039;t say we don&#039;t use it, but we only use it in a context where we know everybody&#039;s cool with it.  

The truth is, I trust them because I know them as people, not as Generic Men.  The one who&#039;s the closest to wanting a stereotypical relationship, wants a wife who&#039;ll work outside the house, so he can play 50&#039;s housewife.  It&#039;s kind of cute, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To start with, I have absolutely zero experience dating men, women, or farm animals.  Why does this matter?  Because the foundation of dating is a relationship.  And the vast majority of my friends are male.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known these guys for a long time.  We have similiar intrests, a similiar sense of humor, and the knowledge of when to agree to disagree.  Do I worry about hanging out with them? no.  Crashing on one of their couches when I&#8217;m too tired to drive home? no.  </p>
<p>Granted, these guys are pretty remarkable.  They don&#8217;t actually call girls sluts, hos, or anything demeaning.  Actually, we mostly call guys whores, when we call people whores.  That&#8217;s gay&#8211;I won&#8217;t say we don&#8217;t use it, but we only use it in a context where we know everybody&#8217;s cool with it.  </p>
<p>The truth is, I trust them because I know them as people, not as Generic Men.  The one who&#8217;s the closest to wanting a stereotypical relationship, wants a wife who&#8217;ll work outside the house, so he can play 50&#8217;s housewife.  It&#8217;s kind of cute, really.</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>I have no idea if there&#039;s really one answer to this, as I think the above responses have shown. I mostly tend to agree with the assertion that a decent person (male or female) will probably be open to hearing your views and reconsidering their own privilege.
I was disheartened to see so many girls dissing frats, though... I date a guy in a frat, and while I agree that at his school, the majority of frats fit the description given, these guys describe theirs as a &quot;frat for guys who never expected to join a frat&quot;... yes, we met at a party, but we spent that whole night talking on the front porch, and then for our first date we did not just get drunk at the house, we went out in a group with his friends. He is extremely respectful of women, as are most of his frat brothers. The number one criteria they have in inviting nonbrothers to parties is how they make the girls there feel - they have summarily banned a creepy guy who hit on my and many others simply because of that, instead of making excuses for his behavior.
Admittedly, the alcohol-soaked parties cause problems no matter how nice the guys are, but they are working on addressing that with more sober activities. We as feminists do not write off sororities as vapid and silly, so we should not write off fraternities as full of douchey &quot;bros.&quot; Quality guys can be found everywhere, just as jerks can, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea if there&#8217;s really one answer to this, as I think the above responses have shown. I mostly tend to agree with the assertion that a decent person (male or female) will probably be open to hearing your views and reconsidering their own privilege.<br />
I was disheartened to see so many girls dissing frats, though&#8230; I date a guy in a frat, and while I agree that at his school, the majority of frats fit the description given, these guys describe theirs as a &#8220;frat for guys who never expected to join a frat&#8221;&#8230; yes, we met at a party, but we spent that whole night talking on the front porch, and then for our first date we did not just get drunk at the house, we went out in a group with his friends. He is extremely respectful of women, as are most of his frat brothers. The number one criteria they have in inviting nonbrothers to parties is how they make the girls there feel &#8211; they have summarily banned a creepy guy who hit on my and many others simply because of that, instead of making excuses for his behavior.<br />
Admittedly, the alcohol-soaked parties cause problems no matter how nice the guys are, but they are working on addressing that with more sober activities. We as feminists do not write off sororities as vapid and silly, so we should not write off fraternities as full of douchey &#8220;bros.&#8221; Quality guys can be found everywhere, just as jerks can, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Lizzie</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1647</guid>
		<description>As a woman who is happily married to a very strongly pro-feminist guy (I&#039;m typing this as he is cleaning up the kitchen - it&#039;s his turn because I made dinner!), there is some good advice on here so I won&#039;t repeat it.

The single simplest piece of advice I can give you is to watch out for any of these words or phrases.

&quot;Such-and-such woman is crazy/shrill/hysterical/emotional/irrational/psycho/stalker/needy&quot; - ie &#039;I don&#039;t see her point of view as equally valid to mine and dismiss it in particularly gendered terms&#039;. If he disagrees with a woman it should be with her opinion, not the fact that she is a woman who has an opinion. If he thinks she is wrong it should be because the facts are otherwise, not because she is too damn female to get it right. It may be that the woman in question IS insane or horrible, but there are non-gendered ways to say so; he should use the same language if he is talking about an insane man.

&quot;X throws like a girl&quot; or similar - ie doing something like a girl means doing it less well.

&quot;That&#039;s gay&quot; - or any other homophobic slur used to describe something as being crap. Men who are afraid of being seen as gay are insecure, and vulnerable to being pushed by macho culture into other &#039;manly&#039; pursuits such as getting drunk, talking trash about women, and treating woman inappropriately when it comes to sex, such is their determination to be seen as virile.

&quot;X (a girl) is a slut/whore/slag/trash/used&quot; - only watch out for this if he does not ALSO call boys sluts. If he only uses it about girls, he is pushing the double standard and he may act hatefully toward any woman who lets him sleep with her, because he will see her as diminished, as used. If he also uses it about men, it may be that he is just conservative about sex, or thinks X person was irresponsible (ie a slut) because say, they didn&#039;t use a condom, not because of the sex itself.

&quot;X is frigid/lesbian&quot; - 99% of the time this means &#039;that bitch refused to shag me&#039;. It means he can&#039;t gracefully accept a woman&#039;s right to reject him, and again, he believes his right to be with her trumps her right to turn him down. He&#039;s probably not a rapist and he can&#039;t buy her from her father like in the olden days, so he takes his powerlessness out by trash-talking her. Not a good sign.

Also as well as the women others have told you to watch how he treats (his mother etc), watch out for how he talks to cab drivers, waiters, cleaners at your school or if there&#039;s one at his house, etc - people who society says are below him. If he is kind to them, makes eye contact, thanks them, and recognises they are individual people, then he is aware of his privileged position and not abusing it. If he doesn&#039;t, he may simply be unaware, and that&#039;s OK as long as he is open to learning.

Good luck. There are some great boys out there, and I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll find one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a woman who is happily married to a very strongly pro-feminist guy (I&#8217;m typing this as he is cleaning up the kitchen &#8211; it&#8217;s his turn because I made dinner!), there is some good advice on here so I won&#8217;t repeat it.</p>
<p>The single simplest piece of advice I can give you is to watch out for any of these words or phrases.</p>
<p>&#8220;Such-and-such woman is crazy/shrill/hysterical/emotional/irrational/psycho/stalker/needy&#8221; &#8211; ie &#8216;I don&#8217;t see her point of view as equally valid to mine and dismiss it in particularly gendered terms&#8217;. If he disagrees with a woman it should be with her opinion, not the fact that she is a woman who has an opinion. If he thinks she is wrong it should be because the facts are otherwise, not because she is too damn female to get it right. It may be that the woman in question IS insane or horrible, but there are non-gendered ways to say so; he should use the same language if he is talking about an insane man.</p>
<p>&#8220;X throws like a girl&#8221; or similar &#8211; ie doing something like a girl means doing it less well.</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s gay&#8221; &#8211; or any other homophobic slur used to describe something as being crap. Men who are afraid of being seen as gay are insecure, and vulnerable to being pushed by macho culture into other &#8216;manly&#8217; pursuits such as getting drunk, talking trash about women, and treating woman inappropriately when it comes to sex, such is their determination to be seen as virile.</p>
<p>&#8220;X (a girl) is a slut/whore/slag/trash/used&#8221; &#8211; only watch out for this if he does not ALSO call boys sluts. If he only uses it about girls, he is pushing the double standard and he may act hatefully toward any woman who lets him sleep with her, because he will see her as diminished, as used. If he also uses it about men, it may be that he is just conservative about sex, or thinks X person was irresponsible (ie a slut) because say, they didn&#8217;t use a condom, not because of the sex itself.</p>
<p>&#8220;X is frigid/lesbian&#8221; &#8211; 99% of the time this means &#8216;that bitch refused to shag me&#8217;. It means he can&#8217;t gracefully accept a woman&#8217;s right to reject him, and again, he believes his right to be with her trumps her right to turn him down. He&#8217;s probably not a rapist and he can&#8217;t buy her from her father like in the olden days, so he takes his powerlessness out by trash-talking her. Not a good sign.</p>
<p>Also as well as the women others have told you to watch how he treats (his mother etc), watch out for how he talks to cab drivers, waiters, cleaners at your school or if there&#8217;s one at his house, etc &#8211; people who society says are below him. If he is kind to them, makes eye contact, thanks them, and recognises they are individual people, then he is aware of his privileged position and not abusing it. If he doesn&#8217;t, he may simply be unaware, and that&#8217;s OK as long as he is open to learning.</p>
<p>Good luck. There are some great boys out there, and I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll find one.</p>
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		<title>By: Mara</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1640</link>
		<dc:creator>Mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1640</guid>
		<description>I would definitely recommend being friends with a guy before dating him as a way of judging whether or not he&#039;ll be a nice feminist boyfriend.  If you&#039;re friends and he treats you as an equal, doesn&#039;t make sexist jokes around you and his other friends, and especially if you can have discussions with him about feminist issues before you start actually dating him, you&#039;ll be at a real advantage.  Must better than going on a date with a misogynist pig who treats you like some sort of &quot;prize&quot; and not realizing it beforehand.  There are good guys out there, of course, and the best way to find them is to get to know them before actually getting into a dating relationship.  My current not-boyfriend (we don&#039;t like the terms boyfriend/girlfriend, they don&#039;t suit us) is great: I got to know him before I dated him, he totally respects me and my feminism, and I&#039;m not only glad that I got to know that he&#039;s a male feminist beforehand, I&#039;m also glad that we have a strong friendship as well as a physical relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would definitely recommend being friends with a guy before dating him as a way of judging whether or not he&#8217;ll be a nice feminist boyfriend.  If you&#8217;re friends and he treats you as an equal, doesn&#8217;t make sexist jokes around you and his other friends, and especially if you can have discussions with him about feminist issues before you start actually dating him, you&#8217;ll be at a real advantage.  Must better than going on a date with a misogynist pig who treats you like some sort of &#8220;prize&#8221; and not realizing it beforehand.  There are good guys out there, of course, and the best way to find them is to get to know them before actually getting into a dating relationship.  My current not-boyfriend (we don&#8217;t like the terms boyfriend/girlfriend, they don&#8217;t suit us) is great: I got to know him before I dated him, he totally respects me and my feminism, and I&#8217;m not only glad that I got to know that he&#8217;s a male feminist beforehand, I&#8217;m also glad that we have a strong friendship as well as a physical relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Colleen</title>
		<link>http://thefbomb.org/2009/10/how-do-young-feminists-make-relationships-possible/comment-page-1/#comment-1639</link>
		<dc:creator>Colleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefbomb.org/?p=1453#comment-1639</guid>
		<description>I am so happy that somebody brought this up. For the past two years I have prided myself on being an independent girl with a number 1 no boyfriend rule because it just complicates my life and males just don&#039;t respect my ideals. That worked great for me! Until I met this boy. We&#039;ve been together for 5 months now and I keep facing this issue with him not accepting me as a &quot;feminist.&quot; I put quotes around it not because I don&#039;t consider myself one, because i DO. Its because ALL of my friends including my boyfriend have this stereotype in their minds of feminists being crazy man hating overly masculine women! And I&#039;m sick of it! In my opinion, every woman is a feminist in her own right if she respects herself and expects the equal respect and opportunities from males that she deserves! Why is it that these stereotypes have been planted in so many adolescents minds? Is it the media, politics, or is it just fear? Fear of women being seen without labels, without double standards, just as PEOPLE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so happy that somebody brought this up. For the past two years I have prided myself on being an independent girl with a number 1 no boyfriend rule because it just complicates my life and males just don&#8217;t respect my ideals. That worked great for me! Until I met this boy. We&#8217;ve been together for 5 months now and I keep facing this issue with him not accepting me as a &#8220;feminist.&#8221; I put quotes around it not because I don&#8217;t consider myself one, because i DO. Its because ALL of my friends including my boyfriend have this stereotype in their minds of feminists being crazy man hating overly masculine women! And I&#8217;m sick of it! In my opinion, every woman is a feminist in her own right if she respects herself and expects the equal respect and opportunities from males that she deserves! Why is it that these stereotypes have been planted in so many adolescents minds? Is it the media, politics, or is it just fear? Fear of women being seen without labels, without double standards, just as PEOPLE.</p>
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