Post Your Comment

• Samuel W. @ at 11:32 am, July 1st, 2010
  

  It’s not just this one corporation; it’s happening everywhere, even in middle & high schools. Don’t beat yourself up because you happen to love Starbucks coffee, seeing as this is a case of one employee’s misconduct, plus a company’s dubious covering up of the case. It’s a big mistake, but that ought not to mean you absolutely must stop drinking coffee. Or, if it bothers you to the point in which you want to stop going there, I’m sure there are plenty other great coffee shops you can find. Think of it this way before deciding to just drop the Starbucks cup: even though sexual harassment happens in the schools, would you drop out of school solely because of these isolated incidents?

• Emily S. @ at 12:33 pm, July 1st, 2010
  

  He was SERIOUSLY named Tim Horton? Although it’s not just in Canada any more, it’s seeping into the northeast…

  That said, whether or not you really want to stop going to Starbucks is your decision – if 31% of women have been sexually harassed at work, chances are pretty high that any given place will have had at least an incident of sexual harassment attached to that.

  Although, do you know if the numbers are related to sexual harassment by fellow employees/management, or includes customers? Cause while I’ve never been harassed in any way by fellow employees, I have been by customers at all of the steady jobs I’ve had.

• Julie Z @ at 1:51 pm, July 1st, 2010
  

  My choice not to go to Starbucks is not just because sexual harassment happened there in general, but more because they refused to recognize – let alone condemn – Horton for his actions. The Starbucks Union Baristas also claimed that Starbucks financially helped Horton and slandered Kati in an internal memo (although this part was not reported in the mainstream media).

  –> http://inbox.feministblogs.org/2010/02/01/from-the-iww-union-baristas-condemn-rape-of-starbucks-worker/

• Starbucks, Sexual Harassment and Teens | fbomb | Job for 14 year olds @ at 2:18 pm, July 1st, 2010
  

  [...] Visit link: Starbucks, Sexual Harassment and Teens | fbomb [...]

• Tessa @ at 8:21 pm, July 1st, 2010
  

  Right on. Those statistics are crazy! I mean, 31%!! Although, as feminists, we need to realize that sexual harassment in the work force or anywhere else is never going to be completely obselete. We need to fight against sexual harassment to reduce it significantly, but as an ongoing pessimist, I believe that there’s always going to be that one boss who sexually harasses his employee, etc. Just like racism and white privilege obviously did not dissapear after President Obama, sexual harassment is never going to completely dissapear.

• The Raisin Girl @ at 9:08 am, July 2nd, 2010
  

  Okay, so I’m not a teen. But you’re probably the most relevant feminist writer I’ve found to my life so far, both on and off the internet. As a college student, I find it frustrating that older-gen feminists expect me to be concerned about their 30-and-40-something issues, when as a 20-something I clearly have my own gender battles to fight. I guess in looking at “the big picture,” sometimes they miss us little people who still encounter sexual harrassment and gender bias, even though we’re not all “grown-up” yet.

  That aside, I think it’s terrible that this girl was harrassed at work. I also think it’s awful that she put up with it. And I think the reason might be that young girls are being conditioned–by media and each other–to find sexual harrassment of a certain level FLATTERING. When I was in middle school, it was considered cute to slap girls’ butts when they walked down the hall. It meant you were an attractive girl. And I was sooo bummed (if you’ll pardon the pun) that no boy ever found my butt slapworthy. The fact that I could school any one of them in the classroom didn’t seem to matter much compared to the unslappability of my ass.

  It wasn’t until some guy DID slap my ass that I realized how childish and gross it was, how demeaning. I felt positively violated, like I’d lost something essential. I don’t know what makes me angrier…the fact that he touched me without my permission, or the fact that I was internally asking for it, wanted it…until I got it.

  Anyway, my point is: girls are being taught that certain forms of sexual harrassment are harmless, okay, or even flattering. And not just young girls. Recently at my college, a girl went to the dean of students complaining that a male student was stalking her. The dean–who is a WOMAN, for cry-eye–told her he was just trying to flirt and that she should be flattered. FLATTERED. At being stalked. Ugh.

• KS @ at 1:07 pm, July 2nd, 2010
  

  Great piece! I am a huge Starbucks fan myself and reading this, I was “bummed out” as well (to use your words). Sexual harassment–verbal and physical–is everywhere and it is important, let alone normal, to seek help and speak out against it.

  KS

• Julie Z @ at 3:30 pm, July 2nd, 2010
  

  @The Raisin Girl

  I think that is such a good point! I remember in middle school the same thing basically occurring, where girls who weren’t treated in a way that was essentially sexual harassment felt like they were being left out, like sexual harassment was a marker of womanhood. SO messed up. Of course none of us can know what Kati’s motivations for not speaking out were, but it makes sense that even if she wasn’t flattered she may have considered it a semi-normal situation, as unfortunate as that is.

• scary joann @ at 5:06 pm, July 2nd, 2010
  

  @ The Raisin Girl

  WTF!?!?!?!? Women in their thirties can’t relate! Since they are not teenagers, they cannot understand being sexually harassed by an older male playing up his age, race, and sex to intimidate them into silence! Because they are OLD! And old people Just Don’t Get It. Right?

  Just because we’re not forty doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care about “their 30s-40something issues”. Because guess what? We all age. Funny how some women think that feminism is only fun if it’s about, around, and for the youth. And guess what! Women who aren’t teenagers or in their twenties get sexually harassed at work too! As a matter of fact, at my first job it was my grandmother who warned me about the owner constantly making advances toward women. Any women. I know its fun to think that since the media mostly focuses on young women (particularly in sexual harassment cases) being sexy that we’re the ones who really have to deal with harassment. Very… ego boosting?

  God, what bitches. Thinking that you, as a young woman, should be concerned about womens issues that will effect you within a decade. Clearly you should only focus on your own personal issues and experiences that directly and blatantly effect you. Because really, that’s what feminism is all about, Individualism… oh wait, that was Girl Power, not feminism.

  I can’t believe everyone celebrated Raisins comment without catching that. “Woe is me! Older feminists want to talk to me about the issues they face and expect me to care! I feel like they don’t care about mine though and treat me like I’m not grown up!”

  Huh. Maybe you should act like an adult, not use age as an excuse to isolate yourself from them and “their issues”, and they’ll treat you like you actually are “grown up.” Maybe stop trying to separate your issues from theirs, since in “the big picture” you are allies. Maybe after you stop ignoring “their” issues, you might learn that older generations of feminists faced and continue to face the same problems we do. Sexual harassment, sexualization of young girls, sexism, unequal pay in the workplace, and more.
  But hey, it’s so much more fun to tear down other women because of their age and make yourself feel even more isolated and special. Very helpful.
  I didn’t think that I would have to deal with ageist comments here. huh.

• Steph B @ at 6:06 pm, July 2nd, 2010
  

  @Scary Joann:
  I think that, while Raisin’s comment did refer to “30-and-40-something issues”, she did so in light of the circumstances. Like it or not, certain issues aren’t as prevalently focused on by us teenagers, who, let’s face it, are really still figuring things out, than by others who’ve spent decades fighting for the cause. That shouldn’t mean that thefbomb should be a place for feminism 101 – I think that’s not what this site is about, and I’m glad it isn’t – but I do think that it means that there should be a pause before we try to translate the issues that the previous generation has worked on to ours; not a direct translation, but a localization, where the same issue is being adressed, but in a different way.
  The tactics used thirty years ago don’t work today, or work less effectively. This new generation of feminists has had to find our own ways of mobilization – blogs, social networking, etc., which build on those established earlier (protests, rallies, marches, etc.).

  I’m not going to put words into Raisin’s mouth, but I highly doubt that she’s trying to separate her issues from yours – just trying to find her place in a movement that’s started to look a whole lot different.

• Dewdrop @ at 2:30 am, July 3rd, 2010
  

  I have had similar experiences as Emily S.; more often than not I am offended (sometimes quite deeply) by the behavior of customers rather than employees. I wish there was some kind of law in place about customers and employees in the workplace–not just employer/employee.

  I’m in what some consider a typically “female” profession (librarian) and I have yet to go through one work week without having some male make an inappropriate comment.

  Being hit on while I wait in line to buy a movie ticket is one thing. It’s another when I am being PAID to be respectful and helpful and provide the best customer service possible. My rent depends on my ability to make the customer happy. In extreme cases I have been very firm about what is acceptable behavior and in one case contacted my employer.

  The most frustrating comments are often the little comments–the ones that would be subtle if they weren’t so routine (you know, the lines that attempt to hit on you and insult you at the same time? “Let’s put that pretty little head to work and see if you can find the most recent Dean Koontz book..”).

  Sexism doesn’t have an age–sadly it happens from the moment we enter the world until the moment we leave it. Granted, the manifestations may be different in different areas/times of one’s life but the important thing is that websites like this exist. This fight cannot be won without collective outrage.

• scary joann @ at 11:03 am, July 3rd, 2010
  

  You are defending an ageist statement. On a site against sexism. Maybe next I’ll see someone saying how gay people totally just can’t relate to our modern feminist issues. Then when I call hate speech I will first be mistaken as a gay man for speaking out, then told that it’s not us and them, just that they can’t quite localize our problems because being gay makes them incapable of understanding social networking. Just like being old (btw, 30s-40s isn’t old) seems to mean you can’t relate or use a computer. And how being a woman used to mean you couldn’t drive a car. Huh, I’m getting an irony feeling…

  That 31% isn’t all women in their teens and twenties, I’m pretty sure they can relate. Just like meeee!

  Funny thing is that I’m not trying to seperate her issues from mine, especially considering I too am in my early twenties and in college. So her issues and mine are the same problems.

  I have yet to meet an earlier generation feminist who ignores any feminist related issue. I also have yet to meet one who insists on handling things the same way they did twenty years ago. I doubt any of them would ignore the sexism that happens in schools when it comes up in discussion, any more than I would dismiss a fifty year old womans problems with being treated equally in the workplace.

  The only reason I can still hold on to feminism is because of third wave feminism, which I always considered to be about embracing and being thoughtful of everyone. Not just white women. Not just women. Not just young women.
  One of the best ways to avoid insensetive comments is to have other people call you on them. When I see hate speech or language that excludes, or even appears to exclude multiple groups (or generations), I call them on it.
  Especially someone in college, writing at a college level on a site that I expect to be inclusive.
  If you want older women to understand, use, and “translate” their oh so different time and experiences to ours then encouraging exclusionary comments might not be the fastest path.

  Oh, and for the record, all the earlier generations of feminists I’m in touch with are perfectly capable of understanding social networking and computers. But way to defend Raisins by supporting the idea that women who are older can’t relate and certainly can’t use modern technology like facebook and twitter. Btw, how are we going to translate anything when we ignore their problems because ours are apparently more important? Very empowering. To the young. Again.

• Julie Z @ at 4:25 pm, July 3rd, 2010
  

  @scary joann

  I can only speak for myself, and honestly when I referred to older feminists asking me questions about this site and the topics we cover, I was not making a generalization about all older feminists and rather referring to ACTUAL older feminists who have ACTUALLY asked me that question, neither was I implying that all older feminists have no idea what we’re going through and I CERTAINLY wasn’t implying older women haven’t dealt with sexual harassment – quite the opposite, I actually identified it is an issue older feminists have faced and one that my generation is just beginning to face.

  and I guess you haven’t had experiences where you have felt there is a difference between older feminists and younger feminists. I, along with some other comments here, have noticed differences. This does not mean I (or we) are ageist. Just because we recognize differences that can sometimes be frustrating does not mean we are DISCRIMINATING against people who are older than us.

  Also, this is not a site written by somebody in college – I am in high school, almost everybody who writes for this site is in high school with a *few* exceptions. And I really have NO idea where you’re getting the idea that there was any mention of older women not being able to use social networking? If you’re referring to Stephs’s comment I’m pretty sure she was just saying that our intro to feminism was found more on the internet not that older people can’t use the internet.

  And, really, can’t you see the irony in calling us all “bitches” while ranting that you are disappointed in our messages of hate? I think you have completely misinterpreted this post, but If you have something to say about this website or this specific post – if you think that we are committing some great feminist injustice – fine. Say it. But please do so in a constructive way, rather than insulting us and assuming the worst of us. If you were really concerned with inclusiveness, as you claim to be, you might care to consider that being inclusive does not mean alienating young feminists by claiming that we are all wrong.

• lmonster @ at 4:32 pm, July 3rd, 2010
  

  @scary joann
  i can see where both you and raison are coming from. what i took from raison’s comment was that older feminists (i do understand that 30-40 something isn’t “old”) don’t always talk about how feminist issues relate to high school and college aged students. for example, i often see articles written about women facing sexual harassment in a corporate setting, but rarely see articles about teenaged women in retail jobs. so while i, a college student, understand that i will be faced with certain issues like equal pay 10 years down the road, i have a hard time actively fighting for it when i am surrounded by other injustices, especially injustices that recieve little attention otherwise. raison didn’t say that women who are older can’t relate or that younger women’s problems are more important. everything that feminists fight for is important, but we can’t all be fighting for all of the issues that all women face. i also don’t think that working on the issues that face an individual and others in that individual’s environment make that individual selfish. i think we all have things that we feel strongly about for many reasons and our age is probably just one of them.

  and, yes, older feminists didn’t grow up with the same experiences as we did. so we have a different perspective on certain issues. that doesn’t make our opinions any more or less valid. it just means that college is different now than it was 20 years ago. so while we can learn from older generations, we also need to form our own path, just as future generations will form their own paths.

  so, scary joann, you’re right. we need to pay attention to the things older feminists are saying not only because they will affect us someday, but because we don’t want to see any woman suffer. we also need to pay attention to what younger feminists are saying, even feminists who are elementary school aged. because while we all might face the same issues, ie. sexual harassment, it will be manifested differently because the culture and environment is very different among 10, 20, 30 and 40 year olds. i don’t think we should be berating younger feminists for not actively working for the same issues as older feminists, i think we should celebrate any work that feminists are doing because it all affects us in the grand scheme of things.

• Natalia @ at 6:05 pm, July 8th, 2010
  

  Although I agree with everything you say about sexual harrasement in the workplace, I feel that the lawsuit against Starbucks for sexual harrasement is not an adequate example for what you’re writing. I saw that episode of 20/20, and the manager and the teenage girl were both in a sexual relationship, in which the girl fully agreed to engage in. It got to a point where he no longer wanted to stay in that kind of relationship, and since she didn’t get what she wanted, she sued Starbucks. Since the manager was 24, he had no right to hit on her and start something since she was a minor. There is no doubt about that. But calling that sexual harrasement is a joke.

Leave a Reply